From gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com Wed Mar 5 00:16:31 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m258GVrQ017596 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 00:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m258GRX4003554; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 00:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX9002050BHFN00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX900HMN0BGFV40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (new-sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.175.65]) by dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m258GS6F047732; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2581RIs016173; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:01:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gd78059@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m2581RT2016169; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:01:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:01:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Subject: Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Message-id: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 2045 I'm submitting this on behalf of Sowmini Varadhan. Timer set to 3/11/2008. Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Sowmini Varadhan 1.3 Date of This Document: 05 March, 2008 4. Technical Description Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults. ---------------------------------------------------- 1. Summary ---------- This case proposes enhancements to the driver administration framework introduced by PSARC 2007/429 to get/set default values for properties from/to the driver from the user-space libdladm library. Release binding: minor 2. Description -------------- The default values of some properties may not be known a priori to dladm. For example, the default MTU of ethernet links is 1500 bytes, whereas that for InfiniBand is 2044, and the value can vary for tunnel links. In these cases, dladm will have to send a system call to the driver to obtain the default value of the property. Also, the "reset-linkprop" command will have to notify the driver that the value of the property must be reset to the default value for that driver. This feature is achieved by sending a DLDIOC{SET, GET}PROP ioctl to the driver with the pr_flags set to DLD_DEFAULT. The driver may then recognize the DLD_DEFAULT flag and return the default value for the property (in the case of a GETPROP), or reset the property to the default value (for SETPROP). Interface Classification Comments ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- DLD_DEFAULT Committed 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: ON 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Wed Mar 5 07:00:45 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25F0j7N027077 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25F0jIi019199 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900M3FJ184D00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX900KNSJ0WPQ20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m25F0Wro011539 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:00:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JX900C01IWNFK00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.148.174.103] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JX9006PTJ0LOU50@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:00:22 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:00:21 -0500 From: Sebastien Roy Subject: Re: Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Sebastien.Roy@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org Message-id: <47CEB585.8050508@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080115) Status: RO Content-Length: 517 Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: > Interface Classification Comments > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > DLD_DEFAULT Committed Same comment here as the one I made for 2008/171. Committed doesn't make sense to me unless we're going to also make the entire GLDv3 driver API Committed, and unfortunately, I haven't seen that case go by yet. Consolidation Private would be more logical at this point in time. -Seb From gdamore@opensolaris.org Wed Mar 5 07:07:46 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25F7kwI027379 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:07:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25F7W9m021714 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:07:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900K75JCUE400@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX900DZCJC3PF30@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m25F54DH004205 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:07:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1097173 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:07:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay43i.sun.com (relay43i.sun.com [192.5.209.74]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2686979 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:07:07 +0000 (Z) Received: from outbound-mail-28.bluehost.com ([69.89.17.198] [69.89.17.198]) by relay4i.sun.com id BT-MMP-32076246 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:07:06 +0000 (Z) Received: (qmail 21173 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:07:04 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box374.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.174) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:07:04 +0000 Received: from sca-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.225] helo=[10.7.251.172]) by box374.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JWvCy-0005xR-5h; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:07:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:04:50 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <47CEB585.8050508@sun.com> To: Sebastien Roy Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org Reply-to: gdamore@opensolaris.org Message-id: <47CEB692.5000104@opensolaris.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Identified-User: {2225:box374.bluehost.com:damoreor:damore.org} {sentby:smtp auth 192.18.43.225 authed with garrett+damore.org} X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 5.205sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <47CEB585.8050508@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 816 Sebastien Roy wrote: > Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: > >> Interface Classification Comments >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DLD_DEFAULT Committed >> > > Same comment here as the one I made for 2008/171. Committed doesn't make > sense to me unless we're going to also make the entire GLDv3 driver API > Committed, and unfortunately, I haven't seen that case go by yet. > Consolidation Private would be more logical at this point in time. > And same reply! (You are entirely correct, sir. :-) -- Garrett > -Seb > _______________________________________________ > brussels-dev mailing list > brussels-dev@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/brussels-dev > From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar 5 11:32:36 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25JWaAj014145 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25JWZDP015278 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:32:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900M09VMBC100@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.174.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX900DVPVMAUCB0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25JP3qR011630; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:25:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from meem@localhost) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25JP3ds011627; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:25:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:25:03 -0500 From: Peter Memishian Subject: re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org Message-id: <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under 21.4 (patch 21) "Educational Television" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1505 > 2. Description > -------------- > The default values of some properties may not be known a priori > to dladm. For example, the default MTU of ethernet links is > 1500 bytes, whereas that for InfiniBand is 2044, and the value can > vary for tunnel links. In these cases, dladm will have to send > a system call to the driver to obtain the default value of the property. > Also, the "reset-linkprop" command will have to notify the driver > that the value of the property must be reset to the default value for > that driver. > > This feature is achieved by sending a DLDIOC{SET, GET}PROP ioctl > to the driver with the pr_flags set to DLD_DEFAULT. The driver > may then recognize the DLD_DEFAULT flag and return the default value > for the property (in the case of a GETPROP), or reset the property > to the default value (for SETPROP). This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default value, which can be handy when e.g. the set of objects that need to be tweaked is dynamic or large. Clearly, some thought is needed to figure out how to express this via dladm(1M) (a new "-d" option to set-prop?), but leaving that aside, I'd think that SETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT would be the logical way to pass that information down into the framework -- so I'm not sure the semantics proposed above are optimal. -- meem From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar 5 11:45:17 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25JjHCN014208 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25Jj5WF018677 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900021W7GI800@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX900DG0W7EUGC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m25JjEdf015069 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JX900I01VEMVX00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JX900GKSW7BXCA0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:45:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:43:00 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Peter Memishian Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org Message-id: <47CEF7C4.5040003@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 2161 Peter Memishian wrote: > > 2. Description > > -------------- > > The default values of some properties may not be known a priori > > to dladm. For example, the default MTU of ethernet links is > > 1500 bytes, whereas that for InfiniBand is 2044, and the value can > > vary for tunnel links. In these cases, dladm will have to send > > a system call to the driver to obtain the default value of the property. > > Also, the "reset-linkprop" command will have to notify the driver > > that the value of the property must be reset to the default value for > > that driver. > > > > This feature is achieved by sending a DLDIOC{SET, GET}PROP ioctl > > to the driver with the pr_flags set to DLD_DEFAULT. The driver > > may then recognize the DLD_DEFAULT flag and return the default value > > for the property (in the case of a GETPROP), or reset the property > > to the default value (for SETPROP). > > This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might > be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. > In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default > value, which can be handy when e.g. the set of objects that need to be > tweaked is dynamic or large. Clearly, some thought is needed to figure > out how to express this via dladm(1M) (a new "-d" option to set-prop?), > but leaving that aside, I'd think that SETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT would be > the logical way to pass that information down into the framework -- so I'm > not sure the semantics proposed above are optimal. > That's a good point. As I think about it, there are two other ways this could be done: 1) DLIOCRESETPROP or something similar, that has the same semantics as originally proposed in this case 2) Just let the ioctl consumer handle this by doing an explicit call to DLIOCGETPROP followed by DLIOCSETPROP with the returned value (both using the DLD_DEFAULT flag). I think I lean towards number 2 -- I'm not sure there is a whole lot of merit in expressing the "reset-to-default" as a single ioctl, but maybe the project team has reasons for wanting such behavior. -- Garrett From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar 5 12:01:41 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25K1e5g014787 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25K10hv002828 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 04:01:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX90021RWYQBN00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-east-02.east.sun.com ([129.148.13.5]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX9001BOWYPTV00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (quasimodo.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.94]) by dm-east-02.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25K1aqq061584; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25JjmN3011330; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sowmini@localhost) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25Jjmsm011329; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:45:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:45:48 -0500 From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> To: Peter Memishian Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org Message-id: <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Authentication-warning: quasimodo.East.Sun.COM: sowmini set sender to sowmini.varadhan@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2008-01-17) Status: RO Content-Length: 558 On (03/05/08 14:25), Peter Memishian wrote: > > This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might > be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. > In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default > value, Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value that the driver would come up with when it attaches. --Sowmini From gdamore@opensolaris.org Wed Mar 5 12:08:10 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25K8AtF015687 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25K8A3o003416 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900207X9LWW00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX9001H1X9LTM00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay21.sun.com (ip192-12-251-24.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.24]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m25JxW0d004721 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:08:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms24es.sun.com ([150.143.232.74] [150.143.232.74]) by relay21i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1494806 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:08:09 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34]) by mms24es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1110533 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:08:08 +0000 (Z) Received: from outbound-mail-153.bluehost.com ([67.222.39.33] [67.222.39.33]) by relay22i.sun.com id BT-MMP-18173681 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:08:08 +0000 (Z) Received: (qmail 10967 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:08:07 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box374.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.174) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:08:07 +0000 Received: from sca-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.225] helo=[10.7.251.172]) by box374.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JWzuJ-0006d7-6o; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:08:07 -0700 Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:05:46 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> To: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Cc: Peter Memishian , psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Reply-to: gdamore@opensolaris.org Message-id: <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Identified-User: {2225:box374.bluehost.com:damoreor:damore.org} {sentby:smtp auth 192.18.43.225 authed with garrett+damore.org} X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.128sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 2754 sowmini.varadhan@sun.com wrote: > On (03/05/08 14:25), Peter Memishian wrote: > >> This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might >> be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. >> In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default >> value, >> > > Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink > drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII > parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value > that the driver would come up with when it attaches. > I hate that we continue to try to talk about how ndd does things today. Only because ndd is totally 100% busted as far as any kind of sane administration goes. I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine changing the "default" value for a property. Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility of a writable "default". As I see it, Brussels properties are now persistent. Why would an administrator change a "default" independently of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value? Its just not clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second persistent value is. Note that in the context of *link* parameters, I believe that the "default" that comes from hardware is still meaningful. E.g. a hardware device that supports a "default" MTU of 1500, versus one that supports 9000 by default. This is more like a capability in some respects, except it represents the initial state of the tunable in the absence of other influences (such as persistent data in a Brussels or SMF database.) Given this, I still think I'd nuke DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT. A userland entity that wants to change the settings back to hardware default can just query and set in two operations. And, as indicated above, I'm not sure that the notion of changing a hardware-supplied "default" tunable value is meaningful. Note that this has nothing to do with the idea of a "default_mtu" as the link parameter versus the "mtu" value tuned in the IP stack. That's a totally different meaning for "default". Maybe that is where some of the confusion comes from? I also don't think we have any kind of notion of "default" which says something like "all ethernet links should default to 1500" (or even, "all e1000g devices default to mtu of 9000"). I just don't see that form of wildcarding with properties as being something we support right now. -- Garrett > --Sowmini > > > _______________________________________________ > brussels-dev mailing list > brussels-dev@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/brussels-dev > From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar 5 12:17:34 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25KHYog016516 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KHS90027677; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900A0BXP6RN00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX900594XP623E0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (quasimodo.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.94]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KHToZ011498; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25K1fjp011344; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:01:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sowmini@localhost) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25K1fhN011343; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:01:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:01:41 -0500 From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <47CEF7C4.5040003@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Memishian , "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org Message-id: <20080305200141.GT4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47CEF7C4.5040003@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: quasimodo.East.Sun.COM: sowmini set sender to sowmini.varadhan@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2008-01-17) Status: RO Content-Length: 1054 On (03/05/08 11:43), Garrett D'Amore wrote: > 1) DLIOCRESETPROP or something similar, that has the same semantics as > originally proposed in this case > > 2) Just let the ioctl consumer handle this by doing an explicit call to > DLIOCGETPROP followed by DLIOCSETPROP with the returned value (both > using the DLD_DEFAULT flag). > > I think I lean towards number 2 -- I'm not sure there is a whole lot of > merit in expressing the "reset-to-default" as a single ioctl, but maybe > the project team has reasons for wanting such behavior. At the risk of getting into implementation details, the current "dladm reset-linkprop" is implemented as a DLIOCSETPROP; the prototype of PSARC 2008/175 modifies that path to do a "DLIOCSETPROP with the DLD_DEFAULT" flag, and no data provided (pr_valsize is 0, implying "use the existing system default value"). If we do want to modify the value of the default itself, we could use DLIOCSETPROP, with DLD_DEFAULT flag, and non-zero pr_valsize to indicate "use as the default value". --Sowmini From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar 5 12:17:42 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25KHg95016536 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KHaxo004334; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900K0TXPGJH00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:17:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.174.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX9008E5XPEZMB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25KA8j9011821; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from meem@localhost) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25KA8uk011818; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:10:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:10:08 -0500 From: Peter Memishian Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> To: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Cc: Peter Memishian , PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <18382.65056.372444.694463@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under 21.4 (patch 21) "Educational Television" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1010 > > This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might > > be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. > > In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default > > value, > > Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink > drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII > parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value > that the driver would come up with when it attaches. I'm not talking specifically about drivers, but about ndd in general. As we were recently discussing, most of the IP ndd tunables effectively change the per-stack default. I think that same concept has merit at the datalink layer and as such I was hoping our design could account for that being implemented one day without ending up with knots or warts in the exposed GLDv3 API. (But given that this is consolidation private at this point, we have time to evolve this.) -- meem From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar 5 12:36:03 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25Ka2IL016730 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25Ka0EL010511 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:36:01 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900B05YK0I200@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX9005PEYJZ29C0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (quasimodo.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.94]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KZwpf020289; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25KKAdA011362; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:20:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sowmini@localhost) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25KKAfc011361; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:20:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:20:10 -0500 From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Memishian , psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <20080305202010.GU4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> X-Authentication-warning: quasimodo.East.Sun.COM: sowmini set sender to sowmini.varadhan@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2008-01-17) Status: RO Content-Length: 2428 On (03/05/08 12:05), Garrett D'Amore wrote: > sowmini.varadhan@sun.com wrote: >> On (03/05/08 14:25), Peter Memishian wrote: >> >>> This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might >>> be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. >>> In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default >>> value, >>> >> >> Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink >> drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII >> parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value that >> the driver would come up with when it attaches. >> > > I hate that we continue to try to talk about how ndd does things today. > Only because ndd is totally 100% busted as far as any kind of sane > administration goes. Meem specifically mentioned "ndd currently allows.. " so I was trying to understand what specfically he was referring to. > I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine > changing the "default" value for a property. > > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility > of a writable "default". As I see it, Brussels properties are now > persistent. Why would an administrator change a "default" independently > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value? Its just not Agreed. > Note that in the context of *link* parameters, I believe that the > "default" that comes from hardware is still meaningful. E.g. a hardware > device that supports a "default" MTU of 1500, versus one that supports > 9000 by default. Correct. another example is the choices made for certain drivers to turn on/off some speed-duplex values by default, based on the type of underlying hardware. > Given this, I still think I'd nuke DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT. A > userland entity that wants to change the settings back to hardware > default can just query and set in two operations. This is fine with me, except that it's no longer atomic. I realize that this is not a critical operation, so atomicity/single-system-call are not big factors. > And, as indicated > above, I'm not sure that the notion of changing a hardware-supplied > "default" tunable value is meaningful. Agreed. It would be helpful to look at the example meem was thinking about, so that we understand where he is coming from. --Sowmini From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar 5 12:38:46 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25Kcks4016767 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KciCS033054; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900M0HYOK1Y00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.174.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX90088FYOJZKD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25KVCor011876; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from meem@localhost) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25KVCRI011873; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:31:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:31:12 -0500 From: Peter Memishian Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> To: gdamore@opensolaris.org Cc: Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, Peter Memishian , psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under 21.4 (patch 21) "Educational Television" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> Status: RO Content-Length: 1090 > I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine > changing the "default" value for a property. Yes. > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility > of a writable "default". As I see it, Brussels properties are now > persistent. Why would an administrator change a "default" independently > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value? Its just not > clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second > persistent value is. The idea would be to provide a general default value that would be more applicable for their configuration, but then still provide an ability to override it persistently on a per-link basis if needed. As we bring more properties into the mix, I could see some meaningful combinations -- e.g., default Wake-on-LAN settings that one might want to configure across all applicable links. Existing properties such as the WiFi radio or powermode settings may already be things the administrator would like to set a different persistent default value for. -- meem From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar 5 12:40:19 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25KeIfD016796 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KeASI012502 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:40:18 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX900B0PYR4N700@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX9005W7YR321D0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (quasimodo.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.94]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25KeEd6022760; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:40:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25KORGx011369; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sowmini@localhost) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25KOR8R011368; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:24:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:24:27 -0500 From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <18382.65056.372444.694463@gargle.gargle.HOWL> To: Peter Memishian Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <20080305202427.GV4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <18382.65056.372444.694463@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Authentication-warning: quasimodo.East.Sun.COM: sowmini set sender to sowmini.varadhan@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2008-01-17) Status: RO Content-Length: 1356 On (03/05/08 15:10), Peter Memishian wrote: > > > > This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might > > > be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread. > > > In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default > > > value, > > > > Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink > > drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII > > parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value > > that the driver would come up with when it attaches. > > I'm not talking specifically about drivers, but about ndd in general. As > we were recently discussing, most of the IP ndd tunables effectively > change the per-stack default. I think that same concept has merit at the > datalink layer and as such I was hoping our design could account for that I think there are a lot of items that may not be transferrable to the TCP/IP model. It's still not clear if all the TCP/IP tunables can really be tied to a linkid, for example. Moreover, the ndd model is still just the simple pair of set and get operations, and to reset a default paramter "foo", one needs a parameter called "foo-default". > (But given that this is consolidation private at this > point, we have time to evolve this.) right. --Sowmini From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar 5 13:06:39 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25L6csA017616 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25L6bm2040930 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JX90080HZZ2O800@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-east-02.east.sun.com ([129.148.13.5]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JX9001CLZZ1TM30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (quasimodo.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.94]) by dm-east-02.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25L6alQ002347; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25KojAZ011409; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:50:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sowmini@localhost) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25Kojl9011408; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:50:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:50:44 -0500 From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> To: Peter Memishian Cc: gdamore@opensolaris.org, psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <20080305205044.GX4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Authentication-warning: quasimodo.East.Sun.COM: sowmini set sender to sowmini.varadhan@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2008-01-17) Status: RO Content-Length: 1470 On (03/05/08 15:31), Peter Memishian wrote: > > > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility > > of a writable "default". As I see it, Brussels properties are now > > persistent. Why would an administrator change a "default" independently > > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value? Its just not > > clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second > > persistent value is. > > The idea would be to provide a general default value that would be more > applicable for their configuration, but then still provide an ability to > override it persistently on a per-link basis if needed. As we bring more > properties into the mix, I could see some meaningful combinations -- e.g., > default Wake-on-LAN settings that one might want to configure across all > applicable links. Existing properties such as the WiFi radio or powermode > settings may already be things the administrator would like to set a > different persistent default value for. this would really match the driver.conf "default global to all instances" model. I think that this needs more thought so that we come up with an extensible design. I agree with Garrett that we could take the more conservative approach here, and define "reset-linkprop" to be the equivalent of Use DLDIOCGETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT to get default_value; Use DLDIOCSETPROP to set default_value obtained from previous step. --Sowmini From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar 5 13:08:13 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25L8CdF017639 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25L8642023408 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:08:11 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA0081J01KSU00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA0015P01KTQ40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m25L88eD004135 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JX900701ZLRMQ00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXA0070Y01H6BE0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:08:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:05:54 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Peter Memishian Cc: gdamore@opensolaris.org, Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 2368 Peter Memishian wrote: > > I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine > > changing the "default" value for a property. > > Yes. > > > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility > > of a writable "default". As I see it, Brussels properties are now > > persistent. Why would an administrator change a "default" independently > > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value? Its just not > > clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second > > persistent value is. > > The idea would be to provide a general default value that would be more > applicable for their configuration, but then still provide an ability to > override it persistently on a per-link basis if needed. As we bring more > properties into the mix, I could see some meaningful combinations -- e.g., > default Wake-on-LAN settings that one might want to configure across all > applicable links. Existing properties such as the WiFi radio or powermode > settings may already be things the administrator would like to set a > different persistent default value for. > Okay, except that Brussels currently only has per-link tunables. Meaning there is no master repository of "defaults" for all links, or all links of a certain class. I believe the desire for system-wide defaults may have merit (not entirely convinced, and I see problems with it), but it definitely falls outside of the scope of what we're talking about here -- which are defaults for a *given instance* (link), and which come from specific hardware in question. I *think* we're approaching convergence here. I'd be happy to see DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about atomicity, and keep it simple for now. We can explore other ideas, such as system-wide defaults, later. (Btw, the idea of system wide defaults is yet another reason why ndd is badly chosen for data links -- it simply wasn't designed with their needs in mind. For IP, you normally only have a single global IP stack -- ignoring IP instances for the moment -- so the idea of a system wide -- or stack-wide at least -- default makes sense, with possibly different per-interface overrides. But for link-layer tunables no such "master" set of tunables exists, anywhere, in Solaris today.) -- Garrett From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar 5 13:12:08 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25LC7Ma017876 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25LC4Fx025340; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:12:06 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA009090849T00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.174.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA001NF083TT40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25L4W1m011946; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:04:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from meem@localhost) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25L4WVh011943; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:04:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:04:32 -0500 From: Peter Memishian Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <20080305205044.GX4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> To: Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com Cc: Peter Memishian , psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, gdamore@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <18383.2784.535053.237916@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under 21.4 (patch 21) "Educational Television" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305205044.GX4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 497 > this would really match the driver.conf "default > global to all instances" model. I think that this > needs more thought so that we come up with an > extensible design. Certainly. > I agree with Garrett that we could take the more > conservative approach here, and define "reset-linkprop" > to be the equivalent of > Use DLDIOCGETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT to get default_value; > Use DLDIOCSETPROP to set default_value obtained from previous step. That's fine by me. -- meem From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar 5 13:19:40 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25LJel8018168 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25LJdJs021337; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA0090V0KPZ700@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:19:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM ([129.148.174.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA001A20KOTT50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:19:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from triplex.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25LC5U3011966; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from meem@localhost) by triplex.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25LC57U011963; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:05 -0500 From: Peter Memishian Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Memishian , gdamore@opensolaris.org, Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <18383.3237.810086.590411@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under 21.4 (patch 21) "Educational Television" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 895 > Okay, except that Brussels currently only has per-link tunables. > Meaning there is no master repository of "defaults" for all links, or > all links of a certain class. I believe the desire for system-wide > defaults may have merit (not entirely convinced, and I see problems with > it), but it definitely falls outside of the scope of what we're talking > about here -- which are defaults for a *given instance* (link), and > which come from specific hardware in question. While many link properties are derived from hardware, some are strictly software entities -- e.g. autopush configuration. > I *think* we're approaching convergence here. I'd be happy to see > DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about > atomicity, and keep it simple for now. > > We can explore other ideas, such as system-wide defaults, later. Agreed. -- meem From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar 5 13:28:59 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25LSwPq018734 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25LSm8T005180 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 05:28:57 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA00203108RH00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA0027M106AP10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:28:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m25LSsWS006392 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXA007010CV2M00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXA005G1106MA70@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:28:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:26:43 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <18383.3237.810086.590411@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Peter Memishian Cc: gdamore@opensolaris.org, Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <47CF1013.3080806@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com> <18383.3237.810086.590411@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 1178 Peter Memishian wrote: > > Okay, except that Brussels currently only has per-link tunables. > > Meaning there is no master repository of "defaults" for all links, or > > all links of a certain class. I believe the desire for system-wide > > defaults may have merit (not entirely convinced, and I see problems with > > it), but it definitely falls outside of the scope of what we're talking > > about here -- which are defaults for a *given instance* (link), and > > which come from specific hardware in question. > > While many link properties are derived from hardware, some are strictly > software entities -- e.g. autopush configuration. > > > I *think* we're approaching convergence here. I'd be happy to see > > DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about > > atomicity, and keep it simple for now. > > > > We can explore other ideas, such as system-wide defaults, later. > > Agreed. > > -- > meem > So for the purposes of ARC, lets assume that DLIOCSETPROP is removed the case. Sowmini, if you want to submit updated materials, that would be fine, although I don't think it is strictly necessary. -- Garrett From Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar 5 13:29:02 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m25LT1Fq018740 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25LSm8Z005180; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 05:28:58 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA00206109RJ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dm-east-02.east.sun.com ([129.148.13.5]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA0027S109AP10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:28:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (quasimodo.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.94]) by dm-east-02.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m25LSuer004303; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:28:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m25LD5VW011437; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sowmini@localhost) by quasimodo.East.Sun.COM (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m25LCoVD011436; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:50 -0500 From: Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008] In-reply-to: <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Memishian , gdamore@opensolaris.org, psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Message-id: <20080305211250.GZ4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200803050801.m2581RT2016169@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM> <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org> <18383.784.900903.365125@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: quasimodo.East.Sun.COM: sowmini set sender to sowmini.varadhan@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2008-01-17) Status: RO Content-Length: 365 On (03/05/08 13:05), Garrett D'Amore wrote: > I *think* we're approaching convergence here. I'd be happy to see > DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about > atomicity, and keep it simple for now. yes, I believe we are all saying the same thing. Please let me know when you would like me to provide an updated spec. --Sowmini From gdamore@sun.com Thu Mar 13 16:17:59 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2DNHwUl019966 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2DNHrcC005668 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:17:58 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXO00E07ZDVYV00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXO008IPZDV8FA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2DNHtir026227 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXO00D01ZBOBP00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXO00JZTZDUUQ60@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:15:19 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: PSARC 2008/175 Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D9B587.9010208@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 35 This case was approved yesterday.